Viper

[divine]

Case closed boys lets get us a fucking pizza

[Pepper]

sorry it's a Viper thread, couldn't resist

iah it might work but then he scales even worse lategame

[divine]

worse than mek? ur like the ultimate shutdown after u get atos and if u play well and continue utilizing ur advantage theres no scaling issue, just like other heroes in dota lol.

thats partially the reason why hard carry is so underplayed this meta, utilizing advantages means scaling rates become more arbitrary and less significant to a hero's overall viability.

[Pepper]

Well from what I've seen in pro games, they always get Mek for the early 5-man and then SnY BKB mkb, so a midgame transition into a phys damage anti-bkb carry is desirable. Maybe that will change in 6.86 but I dunno

[WwD]

wand aquilla mek is really fine for mana especially if u go treads too.

also in what way does atos scale/transition better than mek

[divine]

I don't mean that atos generally scales better than mek, but i think it makes viper way more effective. imo vipers a pretty shitty teamfighter -- lower MS than other heroes, 500 range ult blows, and its rather hard to solo gank really anyone without getting TPed on. i guess mana issues dont really arise until ur ult has a 12 sec cd, but i also think that the period inbetween u getting mek and u getting aghs is so difficult and prone to failure.

[Sharpnessism]

i wanna try something new on this character

heres what im thinking

atos before aghs, cut out the mek, possibly skip aquila

+ vipers Q is a 40% slow, atos is 60%. full 100% movespeed slow without overdoing it

+ atos has a fucking 10 sec cd with a 4sec active time. aghs viper strike lasts 5 seconds and has a CD of 12. you can keep someone pretty fucking slowed forever, or lock down multiple targets with ease

100% slow is something that sounds good in theory, but in reality the other team usually has some sort of counter (otherwise warlock and atos would be top tier).

+ atos gives 390 mana and 350 health. both of which are pretty good. Viper's ult mana cost is 125 at level 6 and 125 after aghs.

+ atos > mek. mek's good for early pushing but you wont scale much with it on viper. it gives 95 health, 5 armor, and 250 health on use BUT COSTS 225 MANA. that's some crazy shit on an agi hero with only 1.8 int gain. atos only costs 50 mana.

mek is much better than atos in team fights from the start to end of the game (+1250 team HP along with armor vs single target slow that doesn't work on BKB heroes). if you're talking about just as a single hero, atos is a bit better at the cost of an extra 1000 gold. it's not worth it unless you have someone else picking up mek (even then there are better items you could go for).

[WwD]

mek gives 8 armor. atos gives 0

[divine]

its a pub build OKAY wwd??

[WwD]

filthy casual

[WwD]

honeslty im sure shadow blade is the pub build tho

[divine]

i mean it could be but gl trying to solo gank anyone unless ur teams done something early game cuz viper cant do much besides sit in his lane

[Huber]

I applaud the effort to make this boring pile of shit less boring. I think this is the hero I want reworked the most.

[Casandra]

I don't mean that atos generally scales better than mek, but i think it makes viper way more effective. imo vipers a pretty shitty teamfighter -- lower MS than other heroes, 500 range ult blows, and its rather hard to solo gank really anyone without getting TPed on. i guess mana issues dont really arise until ur ult has a 12 sec cd, but i also think that the period inbetween u getting mek and u getting aghs is so difficult and prone to failure.

solo ganking in general is really hard right now tp's cost 75 gold lol

[Osiris]

it's not lije ur SF abd can blow the entire enemy team up if they ignore you for 2 secobds

[ironstove.]

Atos is an interesting item but not for viper when he has ags. The aghs bonus is too good. Cast range goes to 900 which helps amazingly for positioning, does significant damage unlike atos, slows attack speed which stacks with poison sting and his passive if some hard right clicker jumps on you, and goes thru bkb, reduces mana cost and Cool down. Completely blows Atos out of the water.

I think treads, mek, scepter is the cookie cutter build on him. Whatever you pick up after that is up to you and situational, but I really like manta followed by bfly, it makes him hit like a truck. Blink works well too.

Viper strike basically completely shuts down a hero and let's you carelessly spam it throughout the game once you get aghs and forces teams to change the way they play around you because you can fight from a very safe position.

I do like the attack range increasing item tho. I can see you picking that up early then disassembling it to be built into scepter bfly or bkb bfly. Really great item for viper.

[ironstove.]

Even atos over mek is bad. Mek is cheaper, helps more for team fights, and gives better stats/sustain, and is easier to build into while you're laning. Early headress helps superbly.

I can see atos being a good pickup only for some ints like maybe silencer, skywrath, or mana starved heroes such as riki? And I thought they increased atos cd for the new patch.

[ironstove.]

I don't know what you're talking about but viper is a very fun hero to play but I would like to see a state buff to the hero. I think his skills are fine the way they are currently set, he just needs to scale a little bit better late game based on the way the hero is designed, or be stronger early game with a movespeed buff.

He's still one of the best mid heroes in the game, he can zone almost any mid hero out of the lane if there are no roamers constantly gawking and it is so easy to last hit when you have a casual point in nethertoxin

[Huber]

you're weird this is the driest hero in the game

[magicmagininja]

No sand king is the driest hero. HAHAHAHAHA