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  1. #3141
    youre pretty spot on, id just say that most of those things are paralleled in the dota community besides valve not enabling whiners and valve figuring out a way to make the viewers bankroll prizepools

    times like these i think its hilarious that blizzard doesnt want to disclose how many people play their game, we're just supposed to believe that its growing and growing because they say it is
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numeta View Post
    whats a Sans battlefury

  2. #3142
    its a pretty interesting thought -- how do you create a balanced game? at the highest level players will continue to pick the most OP heroes to guarantee the highest chance of winning. The only way you offset this is by creating characters that boast synergy over blatantly strong abilities or something.

    quite a few of my friends have overwatch but literally none of them play it. i dunno how the community thinks its going to live another 3 years

  3. #3143
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    Valve did a better job because they have (or had, at some point) a better design philosophy when it comes to extracting payment from your customers (they seem to believe it's not appropriate to ever paywall core content and used to believe all content should come free - not sure this is true any more with a lot of major content released behind compendium buy-ins and stuff but they aren't as great a company as they used to be)

    Blizzard don't have the same tact or integrity, probably due to 1) being owned/partnered with Activision, and 2) just being an inferior company.

    Valve also found a nice gem in icefrog and by importing his balance practices were able to decently balance a game at the highest level (probably a first for them).

    I think the question of game balance is especially interesting & challenging because it's rare that you find people who have a wide enough skillset and are good enough at everything to do it. Do you really think the developers of these digital card games, for example, are consistently top-tier players? Some are, sure. But often they don't understand their own game at a high enough level to consistently make the right decisions. This is why balance is so challenging - it requires humility and being able to say, "Ok, I made this game, but I don't know everything about it." From there, if you just find smart people and learn to process their feedback properly, I think you can succeed.

  4. #3144
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    It's true that Valve also injected a ton of money into their Dota scene at the start and I think they are feeling the effects of this now.

    It was an interesting experiment and I think it will be informative to look back at how everything worked out, but it seems like it's not a sustainable way to drive a competitive community.

  5. #3145
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    The last thing I was gonna mention is I'm not sure if blizz cares about these things.

    They have a different approach to making games. They probably have board meetings where people sit around and make decisions and it's based on a different set of values from what we're discussing here.

    That's why I say they may be intentionally missing perfect balance. They may have decided at some point that it's better to create this ebb and flow of strong heroes in order to keep their game constantly changing.

    This is what I mean by the word "inorganic." A lot of games will organically have this ebb and flow as the community discovers new ideas + strategies. But I think some modern developers of comp games try to force it. They probably think people will get bored and they want people to buy the FOTM strong hero. Different design model, different priorities. Look forward to seeing them crash and burn tho lol

  6. #3146
    Holy Shit Disciple's Avatar
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    all i know is that florida mayhem h8rs can get the fuck out of the thread

  7. #3147
    Holy Shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by divine View Post
    its a pretty interesting thought -- how do you create a balanced game? at the highest level players will continue to pick the most OP heroes to guarantee the highest chance of winning. The only way you offset this is by creating characters that boast synergy over blatantly strong abilities or something.

    quite a few of my friends have overwatch but literally none of them play it. i dunno how the community thinks its going to live another 3 years
    depends what you mean by balanced. they could have every team play the exact same mirror comp and that would be 'balanced' i guess but pretty boring. ow is pretty similar to dota in a sense, there's always going to be heroes picked more often because of specific traits and abilities, it's just the nature of the game. the only recent 'OP' heroes i'd say would be tracer and mercy pre-nerf with res.
    Last edited by OhMyDog; February 14th, 2018 at 08:18 PM.

  8. #3148
    Holy Shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple View Post
    all i know is that florida mayhem h8rs can get the fuck out of the thread
    arent they like second last or something (shanghai is last with 0 wins). thats pretty good i guess.

  9. #3149
    Holy Shit
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    honestly i found overwatch more fun when some of the things in the game lacked balancing (hero limit, widow quick scoping)

  10. #3150
    Holy Shit KeepitMello's Avatar
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    OWL is not a fun thing to watch for the same reason that the NBA is not fun to watch. Esports used to be about friends coming together and winning tourneys, now it's just star players moving around
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    Quote Originally Posted by bees View Post
    Man I FUCKING HATE BLACKS

  11. #3151
    Administrator bees's Avatar
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    what?
    remember benghazi

  12. #3152
    Holy Shit KeepitMello's Avatar
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    sig check
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    Quote Originally Posted by bees View Post
    Man I FUCKING HATE BLACKS

  13. #3153
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    owl's destined to fail because nobody's figured out a way to make fps games watchable as a spectator sport

    any time you check the overwatch subreddits there will just be constant complaints about cameramen screwing up in tournaments because it's just impossible to make watching this an enjoyable experience

  14. #3154
    Administrator bees's Avatar
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    owl is getting some super impressive numbers atm tho since the league is all fancy and pretty
    remember benghazi

  15. #3155
    Holy Shit KeepitMello's Avatar
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    the only fps that's watchable is probably halo 3 because the action itself is pretty slow
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    Quote Originally Posted by bees View Post
    Man I FUCKING HATE BLACKS

  16. #3156
    Quote Originally Posted by Alightsoul View Post
    owl's destined to fail because nobody's figured out a way to make fps games watchable as a spectator sport

    any time you check the overwatch subreddits there will just be constant complaints about cameramen screwing up in tournaments because it's just impossible to make watching this an enjoyable experience
    ? You should watch some CS streams. I don't care for them but they know how to cast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numeta View Post
    whats a Sans battlefury

  17. #3157
    Holy Shit Disciple's Avatar
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    sadokist is the fucking goat

  18. #3158
    Dominating notjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alightsoul View Post
    owl's destined to fail because nobody's figured out a way to make fps games watchable as a spectator sport

    any time you check the overwatch subreddits there will just be constant complaints about cameramen screwing up in tournaments because it's just impossible to make watching this an enjoyable experience
    " because nobody's figured out a way to make fps games watchable as a spectator sport "

    https://youtu.be/G7nPn6KsgGo?t=695

    lol

  19. #3159
    Dominating notjones's Avatar
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    fucking ddk lol

  20. #3160

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