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  1. #21
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamafuckingretard View Post
    felt kinda joneslike to me but dont fucking ban him regardless you goddamn monkeys
    The person doesn't want to be identified so I say we shouldn't speculate

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by yns View Post
    no its me yns not dan
    damn that long post wasn't your usual writing style it had me confused

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamafuckingretard View Post
    felt kinda joneslike to me but dont fucking ban him regardless you goddamn monkeys
    jones doesn't have access to this account

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alightsoul View Post
    Yeah, I had actually read a good bit of it and seen all of that already. Was going to take some time to get quotes/screenshots of particularly objectionable stuff so we could all read it here. The doc is huge though.

    I was mostly prodding because I thought it was Ewiz saying he was going to go through it and I thought it would be somebody presenting a different opinion from my own.

    I think, as with the other Damore Document, if you actually read the thing you will come away thinking less of Google, but it will inevitably be turned into a fiery political battle by people who don't read it and just read media buzz/twitter reactions to it.

    Even the techcrunch article I originally got the document from horribly misrepresented Damore and his arguments, suggesting that he intended to make massive and demeaning generalizations about women when in reality he was trying to make an argument about statistics (namely, why even in the most equitable societies the statistics will not show increasing gender parity in some fields; in fact, it's often exactly the opposite. The most equal societies have the largest gender disparities in some of the fields in quesiton.) and many of his "arguments" that people objected to were just discussions of actual studies and data, the conclusions of which were falsely attributed to him as some sort of bigoted screed.

    Anyways, complicated issue, the world reduces its complexity in order to make it political, can't talk about it in public for fear of being labeled an enemy of JUSTICE AND TRUTH, expect to one day be escorted off the premises of some google subsidiary like boston dynamics due to being blacklisted because they connected my alightsoul posts to my chrome history

    and that's life.
    idk man go reread his original memo. while he is making arguments based on statistics, the context of the argument matters a lot. he's basically saying women and minorities aren't as fit for the jobs at google but get them anyway. He blasted that memo company wide, essentially disparaging any non-white male employees as not deserving their jobs. that's the creation of a hostile work environment and perpetuating stereotypes that may be true in the aggregate and applying them to specific people at google

  5. #25
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    Also:

    There's more than one extra man involved. Keep reading.

    One of the guys I read about seemed like kind of a moron who just started talking politics in the workplace/public workplace forum and tanked his reputation because of it. Yes, these people were unfairly pursued for their personal views. No, they aren't blameless: Keep ya mouths shut when you think you might want to talk about politics, don't expect people to be intelligent, rational, and open to discussion. It's a doggie dog world out there.

    But there's a later story of a different individual who seems like he has a more valid complaint (more valid than just "I posted something on line and my career suffered for it," which, outside of the obvious failures on HR's part, doesn't seem that litigable). Don't recall exact details but it was something like "They so aggressively pushed the gender parity thing that I had trouble getting positions/projects when my old one was wrapping up. I found a subpar position, expressed a middle-of-the-line (read: not rabid) opinion when the Damore thing came to light, then had my character assassinated by my new manager when the opportunity finally arose to move to a more appropriate department.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yns View Post
    idk man go reread his original memo. while he is making arguments based on statistics, the context of the argument matters a lot. he's basically saying women and minorities aren't as fit for the jobs at google but get them anyway. He blasted that memo company wide, essentially disparaging any non-white male employees as not deserving their jobs. that's the creation of a hostile work environment and perpetuating stereotypes that may be true in the aggregate and applying them to specific people at google
    No, this isn't true. Read more. Read the bits of the lawsuit that describe him developing the memo.

  7. #27
    Beyond Grantlike iamafuckingretard's Avatar
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    so people are ego driven shitfaces who use political views to rationalize being cutthroat dicks to each other in office environments

  8. #28
    Godlike div's Avatar
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    fuck white people lmao
    girl gamers dm me

  9. #29
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yns View Post
    idk man go reread his original memo. while he is making arguments based on statistics, the context of the argument matters a lot. he's basically saying women and minorities aren't as fit for the jobs at google but get them anyway. He blasted that memo company wide, essentially disparaging any non-white male employees as not deserving their jobs. that's the creation of a hostile work environment and perpetuating stereotypes that may be true in the aggregate and applying them to specific people at google
    I will respond to individual claims:

    1. he said women and minorities aren't fit -
    I don't think so. I think this was the reading of a hypersensitive reader who read the document in a politically-charged context. I think people felt insecure and couldn't read the rational arguments in the document. The document makes one central claim: That there are reasons other than cultural bias that women don't go into tech. It attempts to support this claim with studies exploring women's different interests, different strengths, differences in biology.

    It's repeatedly made clear, both in direct wording and in tone, that this isn't an attack on specific people. It's not meant to say "the women I work with are less capable." That's simply not how statistics work. It's talking about why, statistically, there are more men interested in these types of things than women.

    Yes, it's an unpopular argument to talk about differences in biology between men and women. There are people these days who believe the only thing stopping you from being the opposite gender is a switch in your head - that you can make a decision one day and suddenly be someone else. We have to be "tolerant" of these beliefs. It's understandable that they would feel attacked. But they aren't being attacked. And it's reality that there are biological differences. Look between your legs.

    None of this is about attacking people. It's just that some very sensitive people can't have a rational discussion about some facts of life without taking personal offense. And I understand there are cultural issues here, like Donald Trump winning an election and grabbing some guy who wants to electrocute the gay out of you, that might make people a little touchy about this. But let's keep a firm grip on reality.

    2. blasted the memo company wide-
    No, read the lawsuit. It lays out an accurate picture of the way the situation escalated.

    Mr. Damore saw a cultural issue at Google. He attended a ton of seminars, hiring discussions, etc, and found that he didn't agree with some of what was being said. He decided to make a rational, informed argument about his opinion in hopes of changing the company culture for the better because he believed in the democratic process. He realized his claims needed to be supported by fact, so he did research. He conferred with coworkers who shared his opinions, sought feedback from his peers, and eventually started seeking larger groups to get feedback from. This is the point where it starts being posted to internal discussion groups. He wants to stimulate a cultural discussion to change Google's culture.

    Eventually it hits the wrong hands and somebody leaks it, politicizes it, and creates a huge media shitstorm. Twitter erupts. Any hope of rational discussion is lost. But the true failure, on a company level, came a little earlier: the culture was too far gone to have a rational discussion in the first place and inconsistent views were just not welcome. This is a failure on Google's part and it is explored in-depth in the court documents.

    3. hostile work environment-
    The cultural and media shitstorm created the hostile work environment. He didn't create a memo to disparage people and make people feel unwelcome. Rational reading of the memo shouldn't have made anyone feel this way. He wanted to change hiring practices and company-wide approach to personnel and diversity. He thought he was starting an open, welcoming discussion. With the media/twitter shitstorm, clearly this wasn't possible, and he probably had to be fired. But Google failed, and Google is a sinking ship.

    I hope he wins the court case and the country suddenly accepts these facts as truths. Unfortunately, I think that won't be the case. It will continue to be a highly public political farce and any decision will just be appealed and "fake news'd" ad nauseam until nobody knows which way is up any more. Meanwhile, lots of people will be very upset about stupid things and navigating the workplace will be increasingly challenging as little comments will pose a risk of causing someone to snap and rational discussion will be near-impossible.

    Basically, I think we are fucked, culturally, and my best bet is just to stop having and sharing opinions for about 2 years.

  10. #30
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    Also, Twitter is poisoning our culture and all the people who read and participate in twitter politics (that guy broodstar) are ruining their brains

  11. #31
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    True democracy and true liberalism are about open discussion of a variety of viewpoints with the goal of becoming more intelligent & better informed

    Modern liberalism has failed and you will continue to have to endure Trump and his ilk until you learn your lesson

  12. #32
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    Hope to have some good earnest & open discussion about this issue in this thread

  13. #33
    thats not me, its been a year since i put that much work into a post
    /u/GranDGranT has helped pay for 231.26 minutes of reddit server time.

    gifts on behalf of /u/GranDGranT have helped pay for 19.78 hours of reddit server time.

    gifts on behalf of /u/Jalapen0s have helped pay for 14.92 hours of reddit server time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Numeta View Post
    whats a Sans battlefury

  14. #34
    Beyond Grantlike Alightsoul's Avatar
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    if u say so

    but we don't believe u for the record

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Alightsoul View Post
    until nobody knows which way is up any more.

  16. #36
    Godlike div's Avatar
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    yeah dont use social media unless u idiots want to get socially engineered
    girl gamers dm me

  17. #37
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    i highly doubt broodstar would ever read twitter, that's just more blatant lying and propaganda

  18. #38
    Beyond Grantlike iamafuckingretard's Avatar
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    im just gonna own despite all this instead of trying to become a person who owns at all this stuff

  19. #39
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    no that Post was me, yns, the original creator of this account jones has no access to this account (hopefully). Iím driving now to get some food so Iíll read though more later but yeah it looks pretty bad on google when you read through it (of course it will though because its from the plaintiff) but also at the same time it shouldíve been pretty obvious to anyone in their position (especially someone who claims to be such a champion of logic and statistics) that making these memos and posts arguing about the company liberal PC culture was going to lead to hostility and then getting fired

  20. #40
    Beyond Grantlike magicmagininja's Avatar
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    tfw some things are politically charged and other things are not
    Quote Originally Posted by divine View Post
    Magics been way too agreeable without the least bit of negotiation. I know he's smart enough to abuse his sub-ness by taking it in the ass when it matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timado View Post
    ya, workin out for da gurls never works ask magic, the guy trains everyday like a ucking dog and is 10 years away from gettign some poon
    Quote Originally Posted by iamafuckingretard View Post
    kinkshamers dont know what love is

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