Quick Mafia #2: True Love

[DESTROLYS]

It's not very interesting though, we didn't discuss much

[Supa_Warlord]

Kami gratz on having much more superior argumental skills. Although ur logic is a piece of shit. Me switching from morph because I mistrusted grant made sense, if he was mafia and targeted morph and they were 2 townies then we lose and i was afraid of that. Instead u jumped mr with all your shit. And yea my plan was perfect if not you retard.

[Kamikrazy]

Kami gratz on having much more superior argumental skills. Although ur logic is a piece of shit. Me switching from morph because I mistrusted grant made sense, if he was mafia and targeted morph and they were 2 townies then we lose and i was afraid of that. Instead u jumped mr with all your shit. And yea my plan was perfect if not you retard.

Other than your personal attacks, I really can't even understand what you're trying to say with your post. You painted a massive target on your chest with your poor reasoning skills and jumping around with your points. Stop acting like your logic was impeccable, you said it yourself that this game is mostly random. The only things we have to go off of is people posting dumb shit like you did.

You guys fucking suck at this game. These quick mafia games have proven how much all of you suck at reading people. You all rely on the logic and clues from your roles way too much.

So Spit, what exactly went wrong with this game? You say we should be reading people, but in both games the mafia ended up being some of the most quiet individuals. Is that the "read" that we should have been picking up on?

I don't see how anything Murs/Destro posting was really indicative of them being mafia and it was pretty much the same in the other game with Korok/Ganked.

[Kamikrazy]

It's not very interesting though, we didn't discuss much

I assume most conversations were like that as well.

[Supa_Warlord]

Yeh my logic sucks right but I knew how town can won the game and I called both mafias while you got me killed. Good job your logic is amazing. You are great, unfortunately your graveness made us lose.

[Kamikrazy]

Yeh my logic sucks right but I knew how town can won the game and I called both mafias while you got me killed. Good job your logic is amazing. You are great, unfortunately your graveness made us lose.

Oh god stop acting like you calling both mafias was anything more than luck.

[Supa_Warlord]

Are u fucking retarded? I knew grant wasn't mafia at like page 6. If he wasn't mafia then rest 2 were. Holy shot are u that fucking dumb? My plan from the begging was perfect, my mistake was not trusting grant when he was obviously town from his responses.

[DESTROLYS]

I don't understand how you could possibly have known who both mafia were just from confirming grant's innocence, considering that after drmaul/dee kicked the bucket there were still 3 pairs left, and you couldn't have been certain of your own partner's affiliation either

Can you explain how you came to these conclusions, im slow tonight

[Supa_Warlord]

Il post the pms tomorrow when I'm on my cOmputer. I pretty much said it before and how he acted he was clearly a town.

[Spit-wad]

Woops, forgot murs cheated. 8pts reduced to 1 point.

[Kamikrazy]

Are u fucking retarded? I knew grant wasn't mafia at like page 6. If he wasn't mafia then rest 2 were. Holy shot are u that fucking dumb? My plan from the begging was perfect, my mistake was not trusting grant when he was obviously town from his responses.

Your plan was perfect from your perspective because you actually knew that you were a town member; you seem to keep overlooking that crucial detail.

[asrmatt]

what did murs do as cheating?

[Spit-wad]

So Spit, what exactly went wrong with this game? You say we should be reading people, but in both games the mafia ended up being some of the most quiet individuals. Is that the "read" that we should have been picking up on?

Staying quiet as Mafia is a "noob tactic". The more games you guys play, the better you will get at reading people. I just realized that in the big games, everyone is so damn reliant on the actual roles. This game originated as a purely intuitive game, with only mafia goons and vanilla townspeople, so I wanted to do a couple rounds of something with less investigatory roles to see how you guys did.
If you play a lot with the same group of people, you'll start to pick up on each person's play style when they're innocent and guilty. People try to make it all seem the same, but it's never quite possible. Staying quiet is the most common mafia strategy because it's easier to fly under the radar, but people will just start lynching the quiet people in early rounds to counter that. The (gasp) METAGAME will continuously evolve with more games.

And yeah, you guys can post PMs now if you want.

Btw, I'm not banning wtfDOTA. You guys can keep lynching him first if you want, but don't hate him just because he's playing a unique (although retarded) style. He's a wild card, and that worries people.

[Phazed]

what did murs do as cheating?

He copy/pasted PMs.

[Kamikrazy]

Staying quiet as Mafia is a "noob tactic". The more games you guys play, the better you will get at reading people. I just realized that in the big games, everyone is so damn reliant on the actual roles. This game originated as a purely intuitive game, with only mafia goons and vanilla townspeople, so I wanted to do a couple rounds of something with less investigatory roles to see how you guys did.
If you play a lot with the same group of people, you'll start to pick up on each person's play style when they're innocent and guilty. People try to make it all seem the same, but it's never quite possible. Staying quiet is the most common mafia strategy because it's easier to fly under the radar, but people will just start lynching the quiet people in early rounds to counter that. The (gasp) METAGAME will continuously evolve with more games.

And yeah, you guys can post PMs now if you want.

Btw, I'm not banning wtfDOTA. You guys can keep lynching him first if you want, but don't hate him just because he's playing a unique (although retarded) style. He's a wild card, and that worries people.

Your point addresses larger mafia games as a whole which I agree with, but is it really applicable to quick games like this where a game can be decided as quickly as two lynches?

[Supa_Warlord]

Re: well
lol why? me betting alone isn't dumb and u betting with me is?
Sent: Today, 1:13 am
by GranDGranT
Re: well
that'd be dumb
Sent: Today, 1:12 am
by Supa_Warlord
Re: well
well il make the bet if you bet a point on being town.
Sent: Today, 1:11 am
by GranDGranT
Re: well
Nope
Sent: Today, 1:11 am
by Supa_Warlord
Re: well
so then you owe me a point if i'm town?
Sent: Today, 1:09 am
by GranDGranT
Re: well
We are
Sent: Today, 1:07 am
by GranDGranT
Re: well
theres a stickied thread in random caht.

Post "I will give grant 1 point if im mafia"
Sent: Today, 1:07 am
by Supa_Warlord
Re: well
oh ok i see, i don't think we are allowed to do it though o.o ask spitwad
Sent: Today, 1:05 am
by Supa_Warlord
Re: well
what random bet? o.o
Sent: Today, 1:04 am
by GranDGranT
Re: well
If your town.. Then Make me a NAdota point bet in the random chat thread that if ur mafia you owe me 1 point.
Sent: Today, 12:21 am
by GranDGranT
Re: well
I know your mafia, post in he NAbets thread that if you win you will give me 2 points or we are both dead.
Sent: Today, 12:20 am
by Supa_Warlord
Re: well
points? dude we are lovers how can you be threatening me
Sent: Today, 12:16 am
by GranDGranT
Re: well
You have 1 last chance to include me in the money or your dead.
Sent: Yesterday, 11:25 pm
by Supa_Warlord
Re: well
? what? we both are mafia lol 2 mafia lovers what are u talking about
Sent: Yesterday, 5:14 pm
by GranDGranT
well
If you are Mafia and Promise me 2 points from your win (mafia wins 2x as much since less people) Ill help you win.

[Supa_Warlord]

bottom is the beginning.

After that i knew he wasn't mafia, it was completely retarded of me to doubt him. My fault for losing this mafia. My plan was working it didn't matter what group we lynched as if you trusted me we would of always had a majority like i said in the beginning.

[Kamikrazy]

Are u fucking retarded? I knew grant wasn't mafia at like page 6. If he wasn't mafia then rest 2 were. Holy shot are u that fucking dumb? My plan from the begging was perfect, my mistake was not trusting grant when he was obviously town from his responses.

I was heading to bed and I thought I might be able to explain things a bit clearer here.

No one was voting for Morph/Destro because they thought they were guilty, people were voting for them because they were the least likely to be innocent. Why did people think that? Because they were the least transparent group. Murs posted our entire conversation, and you and Grand were both extremely open about your discussions as well. As such people were inclined to lynch the targets who seemed more reserved with revealing their discussions with their partners.

Think of it like a ranking system of innocence - guilty. You'll never know when a player is definitively guilty in a game like this, so you need to make judgement calls about where to rank players on an innocent/guilty scale. Immediately after the Drmaul lynch went through Morph/Destro were the highest members of that ranking system due to the above reasons. There was no reason to be heavily suspicious of them, but in lieu of not having another target they were going to be the ones to get lynched. By changing your lynch vote on a whim you created another target, placing yourself higher on that guilty ranking system.

Had you actually been able to provide a reasonable defense maybe I wouldn't have pushed so hard for you. However in most mafia games when players are excused and are guilty they are going to scramble for every possible defense mechanism they can find. That's essentially what you did - You went from ignoring my claims, to claiming that I was mafia, to ignoring my points. Chalk it up to poor argumentative skills if you wish, it doesn't matter. The bottom line is that your inability to defend yourself just placed you higher on an already flimsy ranking system.

Basically i'm trying to paint the picture from my perspective because it seems like you can't understand why no one believed that you were town. That's the entire reason why your plan failed, you seem to not be able to wrap your head around the concept that other people don't know your role.

[Spit-wad]

Your point addresses larger mafia games as a whole which I agree with, but is it really applicable to quick games like this where a game can be decided as quickly as two lynches?

I think so, to some extent. There is less information to go on, and therefore less information to "read", but you are forced to rely in your intuition here. Your only information is from what other people say. You know that 2/8 people are lying, but 2 of the 6/8 could also be lying by mistake (not knowing that their lover is mafia).

This setup is in mafia's favor - there's no debate about that. However, I don't think the balance is enough to actually determine the winner here. It's essentially 2 teams vs 2 teams, assuming a lover never knows for certain that his partner is mafia. However, the 2 teams with mafia have a small alliance connection if the mafia can lead their lovers correctly.

This game always ends in 2-3 lynches, but it's much harder if the first lynch doesn't eliminate a mafia. If the first lynch gets rid of a mafia, then it becomes extremely Town-favored.

tldr: if we played 100 of these games, I think it would probably be 52-48 in favor of Mafia.
I do really like this setup. I think it would be interesting if it were made into a larger game, with a couple special roles added. Nothing too extreme, though.

[DESTROLYS]

Re: HI LOVER
I'm town. If we're honestly both town, I say we should go for the drmaul/dee pairing. One of them has to be mafia.

Sent: Yesterday, 10:34 pm
by DESTROLYS
Re: HI LOVER

m0rphl1ng wrote:

DESTROLYS wrote:

m0rphl1ng wrote:Hey love,

Want to lynch grant?

Sincerely,
Your Lover


Hey love,

Yeah i suppose...him or drmaul, pretty indifferent at this point :|

Best wishes,
Your Lover



My brain screams you're mafia.

My heart says otherwise.

Why the constant tugging at my heartstrings?


I'm not mafia though for real, I have no idea if you are either but for the time being i am willing to trust you :\

We should probably make a decision though, since you are getting some votes

Sent: Yesterday, 10:31 pm
by m0rphl1ng
Re: HI LOVER

DESTROLYS wrote:

m0rphl1ng wrote:Hey love,

Want to lynch grant?

Sincerely,
Your Lover


Hey love,

Yeah i suppose...him or drmaul, pretty indifferent at this point :|

Best wishes,
Your Lover



My brain screams you're mafia.

My heart says otherwise.

Why the constant tugging at my heartstrings?

Sent: Yesterday, 10:30 pm
by DESTROLYS
Re: HI LOVER

m0rphl1ng wrote:Hey love,

Want to lynch grant?

Sincerely,
Your Lover


Hey love,

Yeah i suppose...him or drmaul, pretty indifferent at this point :|

Best wishes,
Your Lover

Sent: Yesterday, 10:25 pm
by m0rphl1ng
Re: HI LOVER
Hey love,

Want to lynch grant?

Sincerely,
Your Lover

Sent: Yesterday, 8:40 pm
by m0rphl1ng
Re: HI LOVER

DESTROLYS wrote:

m0rphl1ng wrote:Town as well.

Are you lying to me?


Asdf i have no idea what's going on in this game, should we decide to just lynch somebody? or wait to see if somebody says something stupid?



Wait to see gives us the best chance of winning

Lynching gives us the best chance of this retarded game being over

Sent: Yesterday, 7:13 pm
by DESTROLYS
Re: HI LOVER

m0rphl1ng wrote:Town as well.

Are you lying to me?


Asdf i have no idea what's going on in this game, should we decide to just lynch somebody? or wait to see if somebody says something stupid?

Sent: Yesterday, 6:20 pm
by DESTROLYS
Re: HI LOVER
No my love

Sent: Yesterday, 5:52 pm
by m0rphl1ng
Re: HI LOVER
Town as well.

Are you lying to me?

Sent: Yesterday, 5:11 pm
by DESTROLYS
Re: HI LOVER

m0rphl1ng wrote:Hi lover!

Are you town or mafia?


I am townsies, you?

Sent: Yesterday, 3:27 pm
by m0rphl1ng
HI LOVER
Hi lover!

Are you town or mafia?

starting from the bottom