1984 vs brave new world

[KZZ]

my favorite part is how ron paul thinks that barack obama is stealing gold from fort knox

[Zigrakil]

my favorite part is how ron paul thinks that barack obama is stealing gold from fort knox

my favourite part is when supporters call him dr Paul

[carebear33]

my favorite part is how ron pauls probably forgotten more about economics than you guys will ever know

also zigrakil, "favourite", really? jesus christ are you unlikeable

[Zigrakil]

my favorite part is how ron pauls probably forgotten more about economics than you guys will ever know

also zigrakil, "favourite", really? jesus christ are you unlikeable

ron paul perhaps has knowledge on how markets work and how the united states economy functions. unfortunately, that's worthless because his entire political philosophy is fucking retarded with no redeeming features amid its constitutional masturbation.

[Urban69ing]

my favorite part is how ron pauls probably forgotten more about economics than you guys will ever know

also zigrakil, "favourite", really? jesus christ are you unlikeable

Laissez-faire economics at work. Why would Ron Paul know so much about economics? His doctorate in medicine?

[KZZ]

my favorite part is how ron pauls probably forgotten more about economics than you guys will ever know

also zigrakil, "favourite", really? jesus christ are you unlikeable

uh anyone who thinks we should go back on the gold standard is completely fucking nuts and has no business claiming any knowledge of economics. my background is not in economics, but I've talked with people who are a lot more qualified than ron paul and there are a few reasons why fiat currency is the only option right now, all of them are pretty basic. his obsession with inflation also shows a really poor understanding of economics.

I like some of ron paul's ideas. I don't think the US should be isolationist per say, but I don't see why we need to have so many military bases all around the world (cuba/aus/s. korea/japan/philippines). I think defense spending is way too high, and I don't think we should invade foreign countries at the drop of a hat.

[carebear33]

Zigrakil: my point is you probably don't have sufficient knowledge of libertarianism to draw a conclusion about it, but nonetheless you seem pretty eager to write it off. In all likelihood you wouldn't be able to levy a good argument against Austrian economics or libertarianism that a lot of people could and would dismantle with ease. omg I'm totally committing a logical fallacy right now I just know it

Urban69ing: on sweatshops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxBzKkWo0mo

KZZ: Ron Paul doesn't want to go back to the gold standard. Also here's my counter for when you whip out some quote of him saying "We should go back on the gold standard":

"I wouldn't exactly go back on the gold standard but I would legalize the constitution where gold and silver should and could be legal tender, which would restrain the Federal Government from spending and then turning that over to the Federal Reserve and letting the Federal Reserve print the money."

[Urban69ing]

I really can't take that video seriously. It's armchair logic at its finest; and if you read the source article masango's story directly conflicts with that presented. The Nanny job also probably gives the nanny room + board + medical facilities with standards incomparable to the sweat shop worker. Working conditions overall are probably much nicer for


At any rate, it's child labor(and exploitation of the worker) that I have my issues with. It's only 'mutually beneficial' when there is no other work to compare it to. A laissez-faire economic

Anyways you're telling me you support a bourgeois social and economic structure? Oh my... History has shown that doesn't work.. to say the least.

in a game right now so sorry if this doesnt amke sense

[carebear33]

The video is w/e, I just saw it posted somewhere and it seemed pertinent

I just have issue with this knee-jerk reaction of saying sweatshops=bad, or the suggestion that if there's no healthcare/welfare we're gonna be tripping over dead bodies on our way to work, or if we deregulate industries then we're going to be drinking toxic sludge and breathing in smog, etc

[Haxity]

Well I guess it was only a matter of time before this semi-decent thread degenerated into complete shit lol.

[changeofpace]

as the creator of the thread, i'll go ahead and say the thread didn't have much potential to begin with

that team canada thread had mad potential though

[Legato]

Zigrakil: my point is you probably don't have sufficient knowledge of libertarianism to draw a conclusion about it, but nonetheless you seem pretty eager to write it off. In all likelihood you wouldn't be able to levy a good argument against Austrian economics or libertarianism that a lot of people could and would dismantle with ease. omg I'm totally committing a logical fallacy right now I just know it

I'm gonna hand you an argument that irrefutably shows that Austrian economics fails to explain the modern, global economy.

The bulk of Austrian economics is based on the assumption that the pool of resources is infinite.

We live on a finite planet (with a finite rate of resource generation).

Awkward.

[Legato]

The video is w/e, I just saw it posted somewhere and it seemed pertinent

I just have issue with this knee-jerk reaction of saying sweatshops=bad, or the suggestion that if there's no healthcare/welfare we're gonna be tripping over dead bodies on our way to work, or if we deregulate industries then we're going to be drinking toxic sludge and breathing in smog, etc

You obviously haven't been to industrialized China.

[Zigrakil]

Zigrakil: my point is you probably don't have sufficient knowledge of libertarianism to draw a conclusion about it, but nonetheless you seem pretty eager to write it off. In all likelihood you wouldn't be able to levy a good argument against Austrian economics or libertarianism that a lot of people could and would dismantle with ease. omg I'm totally committing a logical fallacy right now I just know it

Urban69ing: on sweatshops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxBzKkWo0mo

KZZ: Ron Paul doesn't want to go back to the gold standard. Also here's my counter for when you whip out some quote of him saying "We should go back on the gold standard":

"I wouldn't exactly go back on the gold standard but I would legalize the constitution where gold and silver should and could be legal tender, which would restrain the Federal Government from spending and then turning that over to the Federal Reserve and letting the Federal Reserve print the money."

likewise you nor ron paul can muster a good argument for the austrian school that most econ profs wouldn't dismiss, nor can you muster a good argument for libertarianism that most polsci profs couldn't dismiss. who gives a fuck?

i don't pretend to know lots about economics, but i do know about libertarianism, which is philosophy first and pragmatics later. it's bullshit based on essentially anti-social disorder given form.

[Urban69ing]

What did these 3 men have in common besides being great presidents?

Also something to take into account-- factories aren't usually present in rural areas so obviously they'll pay higher than average in countries that still have a strong rural sector as people in cities generally make more while having a higher cost of living.

[ironstove.]

brave new world is a utopian novel and my favorite. I think everyone here has a little bit of bernard, lenina, and hemholts in them all, and of course the bernard in all of us wants to believe that we hold less of bernard and more of the latter though the case is probably opposite.

take into account that everyone is too numb to realize they are unhappy which is the closest you will ever obtain to a sustainable, 'happy' society.

like you see people cheering like mad at sporting events and having all those chemicals like dopamine and norepinephrine surging through their brains from watching something as trivial as another man throwing a ball into an arbitrarily designated hoop and they all think they are happy when their team scores or wins and such, but the reality is that just like how winning in a video game, a system made by another human being designed for you to win, designed for you to eventually gain some sort of reward (because if there was no reward, then we would have ourselves a shitty game), provides this artificial surge of dopamine, stuff like television shows and sporting events and drugs are the same way (That is, providing you with a sense of satisfaction of accomplishing something where there is none), so versus trying to moderate and control all of these substances and dealing with a crowd of stupid, angry plebs all the time, it's just a better system overall to just give them the drugs they want in whatever form they want them in to get them off your back so the real men can go and do their real work while the betas, gammas, deltas, and epsilons have fun with their games and think they're playing real life. (And by saying this, I am in no way trying to implicate myself as an alpha).

the book's story revolves entirely around the lives of characters that are not like the rest, that is, conscious of their misery, unable to fight it off with the drugs, sex, and entertainment unlike the rest of society; bernard with his constant feelings of inadequacy from being unable to meet his alpha roles, lenina with her loneliness due to lack of 'real' love and affection due to her low self-valuation as being nothing more than a cum dumpster, the savage with his disgust with the lack of classical morals in modern society (though you can't really blame him for being shell shocked), and hemholts with his lack of satisfaction/stimulation in what society has to offer.

1984 is more of what used to be attempted by the old communist states like mao's china and stalin's soviet union. Just an attempt at complete control of all aspects of society, with secret police, press control, and such. Obviously from looking back on history we can see that 1984 is a tried and failed method because it's like trying hold a bunch of water with a dinky wooden bucket with a shit load of holes all over it, so it just goes to show that positive reinforcement is > negative reinforcement aka rewarding your slave for doing the work you give him with petty material objects is conducive and highly effective towards a stable system versus beating your slave for not doing the work you give him because they come looking for you to fill requests versus you having to come and look for them. Sure, the former is less cost effective than the latter (since the main resource you're wasting in beating the shit out of people is labor and time versus actual material costs), but we're talking long term profits here.

See, a more modern parallel would be the financial district in America; the people on wall st are more 1984 while the federal government/media is more brave new world. The people on wall st have the main concern of making a profit between now and next Thursday regardless of what it takes, whether it be cutting employee benefits, downsizing, or raising prices and creating artificial shortages in supply... I'm not claiming that their methods are not effective nor am I saying what they are doing is 'wrong' since they probably wouldn't be dealing with the company long enough to stick around to reap the benefits of the long term growth or decay since they are always buying and selling investments of different groups and only making light touches, groups like the government and media are in it for the long haul so they obviously have a different modus operandi. It's all a matter of what you want to accomplish in the end.

[changeofpace]

brave new world is a utopian novel and my favorite.

take into account that everyone is too numb to realize they are unhappy which is the closest you will ever obtain to a sustainable, 'happy' society.

dear lord i actually agree

[carebear33]

likewise you nor ron paul can muster a good argument for the austrian school that most econ profs wouldn't dismiss, nor can you muster a good argument for libertarianism that most polsci profs couldn't dismiss. who gives a fuck?

i don't pretend to know lots about economics, but i do know about libertarianism, which is philosophy first and pragmatics later. it's bullshit based on essentially anti-social disorder given form.

http://youtu.be/LHoIIT9yUbU

Here's a clip of Ron Paul talking about how it is important not to pull the rug out from under people and ease ourselves out of programs that we have become dependent on. Seems awfully.... PRAGMATIC?

10:45 - Ron Paul: "As adamant as I am about the purity of a philosophy, I'm also very pragmatic"

Oh wait it is :3

[Legato]

Doesn't really change the fact that Austrian economics fails.

[Dota_Monk]

rofl urban straight bitch dodges the debate